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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1188
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 01:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
ISD Ezwal wrote:I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. If you are perceiving a problem with ISD behaviour on the forum or are disagreeing with the way (your) posts are being moderated, please feel free to read the CCP policies and follow the procedure found under the header 'Complaints'.
What do we do if we think there is an intrinsic problem with how the ISD acts, is run and selects new members? This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1191
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 02:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:ISD Ezwal wrote:I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. Please refrain from discussing forum moderation. If you are perceiving a problem with ISD behaviour on the forum or are disagreeing with the way (your) posts are being moderated, please feel free to read the CCP policies and follow the procedure found under the header 'Complaints'. What do we do if we think there is an intrinsic problem with how the ISD acts, is run and selects new members? I think you are poking the fire.
I'd like the ~official~ channels I should voice that issue through. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1191
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 05:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Reiisha wrote:Instead of complaining about it, why not offer solutions that could actually work? CCP is just a stumped about it as you guys and are looking for a proper way to do it. They can start by turning off email notifications. If you cant be arsed to notice your stuff is reinforced despite the big red reinforced beacon you lose. After that fix timers or get rid of them. If you're not able to recruit enough people who play in off hours you should lose to those who can and vice versa. A more fluid dynamic EvE where you need to have some people on line round the clock for Sov is a great change imo.
Historically introducing quality of life nerfs has worked out poorly. You parroted "remove timers" in another thread and we already told you its a bad idea. It means that we can unleash an unstoppable structure breaking behemoth like DBRB or Lyris and all enemy structures will be destroyed. It removes content from the game as well because it reduces defending to a tedious ~watch~ of literally every structure. Tell me how fun it is to stare at a structure for hours on end doing nothing, right that isn't fun and no one will do it. With no one defending it becomes which blob is bigger. Guess who has the bigger blob? That's right it isn't the soloists your bad idea is trying to help.
You want solo to work well? Give people a reason to live in their space; perhaps by nerfing highsec. So the next question you need to answer is "why don't people live in their own space?" I did a whole bunch of thinking for you so now I expect a good post from you. You have no excuse for failing to make a good post with most of the work already being done for you. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1195
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 15:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: You're thinking too simplistically. The only reason CFC is able to hold as much space as it does is because of timers. The reason you are opposed to removing them is because if they were removed you would not be demolishing every structure in game but desperately trying to prevent all the little alliances that you can usually pwn with your 24 hour CTA from demolishing your structures.
Without timers and mail notifications it would be open season on CFC sov.
I expected a good well thought out post from you considering I did all of the prepwork for you. ~lol no I'm right because~ is not a good post just FYI. I still expect you to put some bon-a0-
We are 35,000 strong our population sags when we are in peacetime and ramps up when we are in war time. Putting us in constant war like your suggestion is claiming to promote will mean we maintain a large enough population to wage a war of attrition on everyone. Wars of attrition are our specialty we deny the fun to the enemy and maximize the fun to ourselves as seen by fountain and delve. The only roadblock we would have is supercaps and none of your little alliances can field those because an opportunistic stronger alliance like PL will drop and destroy smaller supercap fleets. These smaller alliances do not have the income or resources to constantly replace their assets that are destroyed in conflict so none of it will last and we'll go back to people claiming to be ~elite pvpers~ whining on the forums with bad ideas because they can't single-handedly destroy what thousands of people have built.
These smaller alliances have NPC nullsec and will not be able to compete in sov nullsec without getting damn good at diplomacy, its the nature of the game. The more allies/friends you have in this multiplayer game the better off you are. No amount of removing quality of life enhancements will make that change. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1195
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 15:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:Most of the space is worthless, much of the good space derives its value from passive activity (moon mining), taking space is a a one dimensional hitpoint grind in the timezone of your opponent's choosing, over and over and over again, the available upgrades for sov holders are the most rudimentary set of halfassed buffs, and industry is so hamstrung that it is invariably cheaper, quicker and easier to jump freighter everything in from Jita than to actually produce it yourself. Allow me to try to get a clear cut understanding, iyo the problem is that 0 sec is: -monolithical, because the way of taking sov is a grind and does not allow for lateral thinking and surprising maneuvers; -uninspiring, with available infrstructural options being lukewarm at best, either in quality and in diversity; -unrewarding, because the economical output is subpar compared to what exists elsewhere, considering efforts involved. Is that it ?
Yep you hit some of the big ones, when highsec is better than the space you can own it creates a problem. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1195
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 16:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:La Nariz wrote:Yep you hit some of the big ones, when highsec is better than the space you can own it creates a problem. I'd rather say, when in a supposedly sandbox game the space you take pain bettering will never be as good as for-casuals-dev-generated-content, then there is a problem with the health of the sandbox.
This is the problem right here, there are plenty of good transitory solutions to it as well but, CCP hasn't told us where they stand on the problem. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1195
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 16:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
That is because the "problem" you describe it, does not exist, as null sec , even the very worst area, is vastly more lucrative than any place in high sec.
Prove it. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1195
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 16:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:La Nariz wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
That is because the "problem" you describe it, does not exist, as null sec , even the very worst area, is vastly more lucrative than any place in high sec.
Prove it. I have no proof please ignore my inane tinfoil-encrusted ramblings.
Okay. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1195
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 16:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
The easiest way to apply a quick fix to nullsec would be nerfing highsec. Remove station slots from NPC corp members, reduce the amount of highsec slots to the same amount available to unupgraded outposts, and only allow station slot access to people who have offices there. The rest of highsec production/research can be switched to POS. That would make production/research more viable for nullsec and can be scaled so production is worth doing in lowsec.
It also adds content to highsec as wardecs will be more significant because there are assets people can threaten/defend. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1196
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 17:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote: No, the problem is that null sec is considered crap by its inhabitants, not that high-sec is superb. Basicaly null has an underpowered potential which make high look overpowered, but if high is nerfed then both will be UP and it won't change things, only that highseccers will be REALLY angry at nullseccers.
The good answer is to give null better options and goals to work for, not to fubar high, else the highseccers and especially the newbies would find the game crappy and not stay on Eve.
Except that wouldn't fubar highsec, it would be a nerf to NPCs which are currently better than player made constructions in nullsec. Nerfing highsec does not translate to harming newbees either. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1196
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 17:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:The easiest way to apply a quick fix to nullsec would be nerfing highsec. Remove station slots from NPC corp members, reduce the amount of highsec slots to the same amount available to unupgraded outposts, and only allow station slot access to people who have offices there. The rest of highsec production/research can be switched to POS. That would make production/research more viable for nullsec and can be scaled so production is worth doing in lowsec.
It also adds content to highsec as wardecs will be more significant because there are assets people can threaten/defend. Bad idea. All it would do would increase the cost of ships and mods, which would decrease the amount of pew-pew and PvP in general. Not good.
It decreases player dependence on NPCs and increases player interaction. It makes industry in nullsec/lowsec lucrative and provides a conflict driver. The same argument was said of the ice changes and there haven't been deleterious effects from the changes. The resistance to this idea is people being unwilling to change and highsec refusing to give up anything for the good of them game then throwing a huge tantrum over the thought of change. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1197
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 17:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
This is exactly what I am talking about, its perfectly okay to nerf nullsec and leave it in terrible shambles but, any attempt to bring highsec in line is resisted with huge tantrums. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1197
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 18:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:La Nariz wrote:This is exactly what I am talking about, its perfectly okay to nerf nullsec and leave it in terrible shambles but, any attempt to bring highsec in line is resisted with huge tantrums. If nullsec is so bad, why are people paying so much ISK to rent space there? What are these renters doing out there? Do they rent space, put up a POS, and then it's to the forums to complain about nullsec being nerfed? Or are they bearing it up just like they would do in highsec, only pay the rent and risk it in nullsec for... what reason? Would that be more ISK? Is the goon rental program not going well? Will more goodies mean more profit renting out space? Will space be rented out that is not normally rented out, or will it become possible to raise the rent?
Not a clue, I certainly wouldn't do it. Maybe if I brought up my gun collection and my affections for family members I would understand. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1197
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 18:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:La Nariz wrote:Except that wouldn't fubar highsec, it would be a nerf to NPCs which are currently better than player made constructions in nullsec. Nerfing highsec does not translate to harming newbees either. Of course it would harm newbies, most stay in high sec at least for their trial period, they will compare the price of things to their income, and buying anything relevant will seem so far-fetched it will be disheartening. Plus it does not make sense for centuries old empires to not have better production capacities than under populated teams of rag tag pirates, at least until these pirates do not enhance these capacities to the empires' level through sheer hard work. La Nariz wrote:This is exactly what I am talking about, its perfectly okay to nerf nullsec and leave it in terrible shambles but, any attempt to bring highsec in line is resisted with huge tantrums. Null sec has been improved with odyssey, what with null sec ore having tritanium and pyerite now ? That's why I'd rather see null sec have better available structures as long as the prices are not made irrelevant by badly thought requirements. Better upgrade null to high level than downgrade high to null level.
So you are for power creep then, ~buff null don't nerf high~. EVE lore should have no place in game balance and instead should be crafted around the game design. For example if we apply ~EVE lore should make sense~ then there should be no missions or pirates in highsec as CONCORD would have all that handled themselves.
E: The other argument ~newbees will see prices and despair~ this is the same argument that was raised against the ice changed and it didn't happen. It won't happen this time either. The people that get the short end of the stick are the NPC corp members, as they should, they enjoy the most safety so they should have the least reward potential. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1197
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 18:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:La Nariz wrote: Not a clue, I certainly wouldn't do it. Maybe if I brought up my gun collection and my affections for family members I would understand.
I see. So I called our your BS of pushing the red herring that nullsec is some bastard child and highsec has it all by pointing out what the players are actually doing, and you have to resort to a reply like that. Go ahead and answer the questions. If nullsec is such a wreck, why do players rent space there? I'm sure you have an answer but if your only recourse is to resort to personal attacks, then chances are you are having trouble with the truth.
I make it pretty clear I have no idea why someone would want to do that, just like I have no idea why someone would want to bring up their gun collection and tell the internet about their familial ties. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1199
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 18:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
^^: Still doesn't address the point that it removes content because it removes the situation where each group gets to choose its engagement time. The attacker gets to decide when the first fight occurs and the defender gets to decide when the second fight occurs. It also punishes smaller groups that will not have the TZ coverage. Its a try though good try.
Deunan Tenephais wrote: When it's bringing up things to the level of already existing things then there is no powercreep. And New Eden should at least stay somewhat coherent lore-wise, or else why have something more than "You are a space pilot, you can do things in space. Good Luck !" and that's all.
That is basically what we have already.
Deunan Tenephais wrote: Since when trial accounts started mining ice ? One can mine ice with a venture ? It's not because some bullshitters use a valid argument for their propaganda that the argument is bullshit in itself, high sec need to be somewhat profitable to attract and retain new customers, that you want it or not high sec is what new people will see of Eve, it need to be a little shiny.
And NPC corp members already have the short end of the stick, what with these 11% taxes and getting nothing but the ships from the tutorials ? Yeah, they can't get wardecced, but they can't wardec either, so it's all fair.
Trial accounts get to see a sample of everything the changes I suggested don't change that. The same style argument is what I was referencing with highsec it literally is "you can't change highsec it will hurt the newbees" which isn't true, the ice changes didn't.
The second point you reference ~nerfing highsec is the end of the world and it will never be profitable again~, yeah that's not true either if anything industry will be more profitable after the changes because it will remove some of the riskless content from it. No more hiding in an NPC corp and having access to 50+ slots within two jumps of you. Oh yeah lets compare that to nullsec industry, where the system of Sobaseki has more slots than all of Deklein combined.
The thing that has been referenced time and time again to keeping newbees in the game is finding a group of people that are fun to hang around with. Encouraging players to form their own groups instead of remaining alone in an NPC corp with a multi system local channel is a good thing. Discouraging NPC corp membership is the way to do this because they have pretty much just become refuges for risk averse older players. Which is not what they were intended for. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1199
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 18:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote:It's really bad to have risk-adverse vets be the entry point for new players in EVE. There should be a corp that risk-adverse vets get dumped into that aren't the same as the newbie NPC corps.
That is another idea that has been passed around, newbees remain in the academy corp for a period of one year subscribed and after that get dumped into the npc corp that is involved in their FW. That means that for one year subscribed anyone can drop corp and be in the invulnerable npc corp but, vets that have been around forever don't get that shield. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1199
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 19:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:La Nariz wrote:Jythier Smith wrote:It's really bad to have risk-adverse vets be the entry point for new players in EVE. There should be a corp that risk-adverse vets get dumped into that aren't the same as the newbie NPC corps. That is another idea that has been passed around, newbees remain in the academy corp for a period of one year subscribed and after that get dumped into the npc corp that is involved in their FW. That means that for one year subscribed anyone can drop corp and be in the invulnerable npc corp but, vets that have been around forever don't get that shield. If EvE had great PvP there would be millions of players that love PvP and don't play EvE flooding to it. If you think a bunch of carebears that want nothing to do with EvEs PvP suddenly will be interested in it because they're forced into it, you've got a nasty surprise coming.
The classical highsec argument ~you want to force people to pvp~, everything you do in this game is pvp. So there is no avoiding it and there is no forcing people into it. You cannot force someone into something that they are already in.
There would be nothing stopping those people from avoiding as much direct pvp as possible by forming a player corporation. Of course that corporation would be vulnerable to war and a player corporation in the opposing FW could go after that person more easily if they so chose to. It adds more consequences to actions.
For example you're a mission runner in the FW NPC corp and you post on the forums a huge rant about someone ninja salvaging from you. You throw a huge ~highsec tantrum~ and demand CCP nerf everything you hate. So this opposing FW player corporation hunts you down and kills you. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1201
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 19:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote:La Nariz wrote:Jythier Smith wrote:It's really bad to have risk-adverse vets be the entry point for new players in EVE. There should be a corp that risk-adverse vets get dumped into that aren't the same as the newbie NPC corps. That is another idea that has been passed around, newbees remain in the academy corp for a period of one year subscribed and after that get dumped into the npc corp that is involved in their FW. That means that for one year subscribed anyone can drop corp and be in the invulnerable npc corp but, vets that have been around forever don't get that shield. I'm okay with the shield, I just don't want them in the same corp chat as the newer players making them all bitter before they even start.
The chat thing is a good idea I hadn't considered we don't need people who are bitter and mad that they didn't get their way poisoning the newbees. The shield in its current state I am not okay with, if you want that shield then you need your reward decreased as well. An alternate solution, perhaps shifting those players to a more restricted tax heavy npc corp. An NPC corp that forbids the use of things like freighters and L4 missions. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1209
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 00:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:The resistance to this idea is people being unwilling to change and highsec refusing to give up anything for the good of them game then throwing a huge tantrum over the thought of change. This is a strawman argument and is patently false. I live and play in nullsec, and I disagree with you. I don't think this would be good for the game. It would be bad for the game. Incredibly bad. As others have said, the income in nullsec is perfectly fine.. I don't go to nullsec for cookies. I go there for isk. Not to mention that there are well established rental fees in the order of 1 - 10 BILLION isk per month, for a singular system, and people still rent those systems and make a profit doing it (or they would stop doing it...) If there is some fundamental problem with nullsec, I don't think it has to do with the income potential. Definitely not.
No its not, highsec regularly has tantrums over any sort of change that may bring it in line and this thread is a great example of it. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1210
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 00:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:La Nariz wrote:No its not, highsec regularly has tantrums over any sort of change that may bring it in line and this thread is a great example of it. The "tantrum rethoric" again, you know it seems strange that so many goons write here to defend the nerfing of high sec, especially considering they inhabit null sec. Oh wait... Now, seriously, let's say an alliance, whoever it may be, perhaps not even goons or any of their allies, was to really control all of null sec, or even the whole of tranquility. Wouldn't it become so boring that many people in this alliance would simply quit the game ? Serious answers only please. Edit pre-post: oh, the big man himself, would you be so kind to take a minute to answer my question, pretty please ?
Go ahead and don the tinfoil hat, its pretty much the only defense against nerfing highsec.
Look at the PI threads and the ice threads. They are the perfect examples of highsec tantrums occuring over small changes that make the game better. Highsec is completely intolerant, selfish and out of control. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1213
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 00:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:did you miss the part where every major nullsec bloc had to create a gigantic rental empire to recover our income from the loss of the technetium gravy train or were you too busy sucking crokite to notice I think you are hilariously misinformed. The nerf hurt one particular alliance far more than anybody else, and it wasn't Goonswarm . Also: don't be absurd. The rental racketeering program is generally about laziness and double potential, more than anything else. 1) Charge people rent for a system. 2) Farm the same system with anonymous alts when they aren't online, or if you feel like a ****, even when they are online 3) Profit....Twice. I don't know how anybody is stupid enough to get sucked into it, but with the population of EVE, there's plenty of suckers. Heck, scamming in Jita is still profitable from what I hear.
~Has no experience running a rental program,
~Only been in highsec corps/alliances,
~Claims to have better knowledge of economics than one of the top finance people in the CFC,
~Claims to have a better concept of history than the people that were in existence for it,
~Throws a ~Highsec Tantrum~ over discussing nerfing highsec.
Yeah you have nothing and are providing yet again another example of highsec people being completely unreasonable with their tantrums. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1217
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 00:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:~Has no experience running a rental program,
~Only been in highsec corps/alliances,
~Claims to have better knowledge of economics than one of the top finance people in the CFC,
~Claims to have a better concept of history than the people that were in existence for it,
~Throws a ~Highsec Tantrum~ over discussing nerfing highsec.
Yeah you have nothing and are providing yet again another example of highsec people being completely unreasonable with their tantrums. So you basically call me out on a bunch of random bullshit that is obviously untrue (unless you think this is my only account -- which would make you naive). Not only that, you put it in italics, and bold. And I am the one who is having a tantrum? Stay mad.
Posting is an art that paints from a vast pallet.
You are having a ~Highsec Tantrum~ its okay we'll still be here when you finish. Tell you what here too I have more than one account and they live in highsec because they can make more isk there since highsec is far to good. Two can play at that dumb game. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1217
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 00:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:La Nariz wrote:Go ahead and don the tinfoil hat, its pretty much the only defense against nerfing highsec. When I talked to you and some others to buff null sec all I got was a vague answer about power creep, while you recognized that null sec is so restricted in its options that it is utterly boring. What high sec has anything to do with null being boring ? Fun is an absolute for each people, if high sec is rendered less fun then it won't make null sec more fun by some magic trick, the game will only be less fun overall for any people. So why wouldn't you prefer null sec to be buffed ? Still the lame excuses about powercreep ? Against what ? What PvE content will be trivialized by powercreep ? PvE is really that difficult to overcome in Eve ? Seriously, give one good reason why nerfing high sec, or low sec or WH should resolve the main problem, being that null sec is simply NOT FUN, what you yourself and some others admitted in this very thread.
So you don't understand power creep? That only buffing things leads to a sort of inflation. Its not that nullsec is restricted its more that it is handicapped. Picture a swimming event, highsec is given steroids and flippers while nullsec is strapped with 50kg weights.
Power creep isn't fun or entertaining and its hard to manage well, CCP has stated in the past that they don't want power creep as well. So nerfing highsec is the way to fix other sec status without power creep. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1217
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 00:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:You are having a ~Highsec Tantrum~ its okay we'll still be here when you finish. Tell you what here too I have more than one account and they live in highsec because they can make more isk there since highsec is far to good. Two can play at that dumb game. I don't participate in highsec besides buying ships and selling loot from nullsec. Where is this tantrum? If you need advice on how to successfully make ISK while in nullsec, hit me up in game. I will give you free tips.
I still have an alt account that lives in highsec because it makes more isk their than your nullsec alt will ever make in nullsec. Highsec is too good time to nerf highsec. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1217
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 00:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Stahlregen wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:You are having a ~Highsec Tantrum~ its okay we'll still be here when you finish. Tell you what here too I have more than one account and they live in highsec because they can make more isk there since highsec is far to good. Two can play at that dumb game. I don't participate in highsec besides buying ships and selling loot from nullsec. Despite all evidence pointing to the contrary. We have this really handy response to these sorts of easily verifiable but ultimately and seemingly invariably disproved claims; ~citation needed~. What do you want me to do, post screenshots of my wallet history?
Full API or bust. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1217
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 00:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:Full API or bust. You first.
I'm not the one making the wild claims, you are.
~Has no experience running a rental program,
~Only been in highsec corps/alliances,
~Claims to have better knowledge of economics than one of the top finance people in the CFC,
~Claims to have a better concept of history than the people that were in existence for it,
~Throws a ~Highsec Tantrum~ over discussing nerfing highsec. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1217
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 00:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:Full API or bust. You first. I'm not the one making the wild claims, you are. You heard it here first folks -- living in nullsec and making isk is a wild claim!!! ******* wild.
~citation required~ This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1219
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 00:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:La Nariz wrote:So you don't understand power creep? That only buffing things leads to a sort of inflation. Its not that nullsec is restricted its more that it is handicapped. Picture a swimming event, highsec is given steroids and flippers while nullsec is strapped with 50kg weights.
Power creep isn't fun or entertaining and its hard to manage well, CCP has stated in the past that they don't want power creep as well. So nerfing highsec is the way to fix other sec status without power creep. First, powercreep is a real problem against environment, because if the power of players is creeping, then all players stay at stable relative power level from each other. The last time I looked at it, Eve was nowhere near pve paradise. Second, you said yourself that null has been overnerfed, then why not rebuff it until it become acceptable again ? It was not super overpowered at the time, was it ? It was not the super sayan of the game. So a middle ground power level should be fine. @Stahlregen: you admitted yourself that alliance work was a hassle. Should I have understood that it is a hassle without being so overburdening that it stays fun ?
The problem has been that highsec has been buffed and nullsec has been nerfed. There hasn't been a buff<->nerf balance for the two sec areas. One gets buffs one gets nerfs. So if we decide to buff nullsec above highsec that is power creep right there. Sure if you want to get pedantic there can be buffs/nerfs but, you don't want to get pedantic do you? The main thing that needs to happen are highsec nerfs. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1220
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 00:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: A buff of high sec???? Exactly when did that occur?
It occurs every patch. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1221
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 01:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: Except for the fact that there are two (three? not sure if the third one got converted back) L4 agents in Osmon for SOE compared to all of one in X-7, meaning that a highsec dude is able to stack missions and earn way more purchasing power than the nullsec dude can
1. No there is only 1 lvl 4 combat agent in Osmon for SOE. 2. Stacking Combat missions hardly makes a difference, it might save you a couple of jumps, however the time to do said mission still matters. 3. SOE income is a very short lived thing due to a new release of ships designed for Low Security use. 4. Risk has been significantly increased due to the popularity providing a very easy hunting ground for Gankers. So.... Osmon is not a magical font of all isk in EVE. It's certainly not better than Null Sec ratting when Null Sec is done right. Also, oh no, High Sec can make an income! We must Nerf them till they are so poor they can't afford to do anything if they live in highsec! Because, really, that's what you are coming off like. It's blatantly obvious you aren't interested in discussing actual figures and are just trying to scream anyone suggesting that High Sec doesn't need a nerf out of the thread. There is nothing wrong with High Sec players being able to turn a good income. As I've said in a number of threads, all systems need more overall content, (Missions needing a redesign in my mind also). To allow for higher population density, and sure, Null needs buffs in certain areas. Buffing however does not = power creep. Power creep is when you buff something because something else is better. Not because something is poor. And in this case Null is poor in certain aspects and needs a significant buff to those.
Highsec is better than nullsec so... This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1222
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 01:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Weaselior wrote:Pinky Hops wrote: It progressed into people talking about how "terrible" the income in nullsec was. All of the people with this opinion are from the same group.
as a reminder you're a highsec pubbie who is claiming their opinion is valid because they're secretly in nullsec 1) I don't play in highsec. 2) One of these days I am going to make a goonswarm insult generator. It shouldn't take too many lines of code. The only ones I ever see are "pubbie" "sperglord" and "go biomass" 3) I don't understand the "secret" comment.
~Citation Needed~ This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1222
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 01:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Stahlregen wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:I don't know a single mission runner who realistically claims that it's more profitable than nullsec activity.
It isn't.
I only see a singular group/alliance claiming that in this thread, which they seem to be doing under guise while they beg/ask for free gimme gimmes (which I find pathetic) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum Let's look at the development of this thread. It started out as people talking about sov mechanics, which is valid. It progressed into people talking about how "terrible" the income in nullsec was. All of the people with this opinion are from the same group. This complaining/whining was packaged along with suggestions to make nullsec more profitable. This group happens to have a lot of control over various spaces of nullsec. Aka: Begging for free gimme gimmes. ~citation needed~ Read the thread. I could quote every single post in the thread as a citation, but that would just double the length of the thread and probably make the moderators angry.
~Citation Needed~ This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1222
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 01:54:00 -
[34] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Weaselior wrote:Pinky Hops wrote: I guess you did poorly then, because the situation is incredibly simple. It's a highsec mission hub. You can't keep people "out" of it -- meaning there's no complex economic tactics like buying out smaller entities and forming a monopoly or oligopoly. It's just an agent you grab a mission from which is publicly open to anybody.
The more people take advantage of it, the more profits will lessen for that activity.
Sorry if this is going over your head.
i have yet to ever, once, see someone cite "econ 101" and then not say something immensely stupid about economics you have not disappointed I have the same experience with econ 102 and 103, and likewise, you have not disappointed. You are right. I expect prices to go upwards as more people compete to generate goods in a market.
Please continue to demonstrate why highsec people should be ignored when game balance decisions are being made. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1222
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 02:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:How the hell did that happen?
I defend myself from a bee swarm of (citation needed) and ad hominem, and all the sudden because of this, I now have been labeled as thinking highsec doesn't need to be nerfed.
This is insane, lol.
I never even made that claim. I think the only thing I said in that vein was that it probably wouldn't be good for the overall game if you /halved/ the amount of highsec production slots....
Ever since then, it was just a torrent of negativity, flames, and random spam directed at me and my character. That's what generally happens. If people don't want to discus facts, simply because they don't stroke with their agenda, they start bullshitting to a point where the one who does have the facts looks like the aggressor. As it normally goes with people who hide in large groups; lots of big words, shouting and 3 word replies but no actual content. Don't be mad at them, just feel sorry for them.
Another disgruntled npc-alt. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1224
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 03:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Condition of space is a part of sov and one of the problems with it. It also happens to be directly linked with highsec, imagine that. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1224
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 04:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:I don't think nerfing highsec would hurt newbies.
I think nerfing INDUSTRY would hurt newbies -- and players in general!! Higher ship prices mean less pewpew and more grind.
If anything, moving industry into nullsec would make the game a lot more entertaining. But straight nerfing highsec doesn't do that.
Chances are, the nerf won't be enough to make it worth it in nullsec. Nullsec will still be crappy for industry because of the amount of logistics involved in selling the goods. Thus, prices are raised. Not only that, but everybody will still be highsec because why the **** not (from an industry perspective)
To make it even out, you would really have to straight buff the ability to produce **** in nullsec efficiently, and make it easier for players to purchase goods there or interact with the nullsec environment in general.
Which I think brings us back to the sov system. I'm a fan of a faster moving sov system with bigger bonuses attached and more options to publicly disburse said bonuses for profit...Bigger bonuses, faster production, better production, more pewpew, faster pace.
PLZ
Except its not nerfing industry so much as its shifting it from NPC controlled to player controlled, which is a good thing. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1224
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 04:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:Increasing conflict potential whilst reducing supply of industrial capability is a nerf.
Without compensating for that elsewhere, you are raising the price of goods.
So what part of shifting translates to reducing? I get that you're trying to say people will fight over industrial capabilities which will reduce supply. The same was said of ice belts and the price increase hasn't been ruinous as you claim this change would be. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1227
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 13:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:La Nariz wrote:Condition of space is a part of sov and one of the problems with it. It also happens to be directly linked with highsec, imagine that. Really, so lets try and add more people the 10% TiDi, node crashing fights. Yeah that's the ticket that will fix SoV and make it interesting.
Has nothing to do with your other post, I'll wait until you're done moving goal posts before we discuss anything other than nerfing highsec. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1227
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 13:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote: Well, when you shift parts of highsec into tight controls, you reduce the quantity of trade as not everybody will have access to said trade.
This reduces one of the core isk sinks in the game. If you don't think a huge amount of ISK is sinked out of the game by a high quantity of trade -- you are wrong.
Meanwhile -- mission runners -- who are a huge ISK faucet, are unaffected by your change by and large, as once they have access to an agent they can freely run it over and over.
Furthermore, there is no incentive to target a mission runner by and large. They don't carry loot on them -- it is ISK and loyalty points. You can't gank it away from them.
When producing, you are a lucrative target. True -- you could hire freighter services to sustain the risk for you, but that will just bite into your profits over time, and eventually you should just transport yourself.
Serious industrialists undock. And they function as an ISK sink throughout. Not only do they undock -- but they pose a target that mission runners never will.
By screwing with highsec production without buffing nullsec production...and furthermore, basically leaving mission runner faucets untouched, all you do is increase inflation significantly.
This won't decrease the trade sink at all as stuff will still be dieing and still being bought. Access is still pretty easy to get because at the least it'd require an office in a station with slots or faction standing/corporation standing. Its easy to address mission runners too because you can do simple things like shift mission payouts from bounties to LP as needed or make mission deadspace pockets count as low/nullsec. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1227
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 13:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
S'No Flake wrote:Oh wait, this is a game and comparing anything in game with RL it's useless. Yep. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1231
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 15:08:00 -
[42] - Quote
S'No Flake wrote: Facts... or you know ... arguments to combat his points? Or ... just because you said so it's all that it's needed to make it true?
I have already combated his points to the point he started throwing a ~Highsec Tantrum~.
I will give you a fact and let you glean the rest of them from the thread as an exercise for your own self improvement.
Sobaseki, one highsec system, has more industrial potential than entire regions of nullsec. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1231
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 15:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
S'No Flake wrote:
Because there are no intel channels in 0.0 alliances reporting any and every ship seen around. You just have to keep an eye on that blinky header and bubble the hell the gates for those ratting systems.
Is not like you are running wormhole sites without a local chat, intel channel, dscan every 3 seconds ... having probes out watching for newly spawned WHs and the 10 ships cloaky gang coming trough it to ruin your day.
Ah I see you are highsec-alt-number-n we already went over this point and it came down to:
removing quality of life improvements is a bad idea and historically has not worked well. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1231
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 19:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
Deunan Tenephais wrote:The problem here come from interruptions by neutral tagged players, not knowing if they will down you or not you must take as a given that they will, so you must interrupt your farming sessions. The answer is simple: ask to CCP for an automatized pseudo-concord system that can be put into place in null sec once sovereignity has been established, without this system acting in any other case.
And null sec lack of industrial capacities emanate from a very simple fact: null sec is underpopulated. And no one can do anything about that, not even CCP, unless they simply remove entire parts of null sec to densify the nullseccers population.
They could nerf highsec so nullsec can be competitive and people like me move our alts back to nullsec. Apparently though highsec cannot stomach the smallest of changes but, its perfectly okay to nerf nullsec into oblivion for ~reasons~. Its time for highsec to be put back where its supposed to be in the reward chain, the bottom. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1231
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: I'm pretty sure the idea that anyone can stand any nerf without complaint is false.
Its human nature to fight for the resources you have. Expecting people to act against their self interest is foolish.
Changes have been happening in the last 6 months that have shaken a lot of entrenchments on both sides.
Ice belts are now much smaller and less easy to farm Player controlled PoCos got added
Null got a massive buff to industry slots Null got a massive buff to anom asteroid belts.
I think your time would be better spent on fighting for buffs to null in the appropriate areas rather than fighting to take away resources from someone else.
Yet that massive buff to industry slots did not even bring null close to competing with single highsec systems like Sobaseki. Anom's have been nerfed.
CCP has already said they don't want power creep so that means nerfing highsec. You can search the thread for the arguments that have already made about it. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: You have taken into account the Odyssey changes into the overall numbers you have listed above? Because it really doesn't look like you have. They look like the old pre Odyssey figures I saw back then. As looking at Scalding pass it is 81 Systems. I'm assuming every system has an outpost here. But you need to take into account all the other Outposts these days. Since the worst manufacturing outpost (Gallente Research) has 35 Manufacturing slots. * 81 systems = 2835 slots. While a single Factory Outpost can get to 310 slots according to Odyssey patch notes.
Additionally in your total figures, you are comparing 144 Null systems vs 650 High systems. If we then take the ratio of systems with stations and multiply that out, we get a very interesting ratio.
650/144 = 4.51(Now known as N) 970*N = 4378 Copy slots. Or nearly double high security space. 1940*N = 8756 ME/PE/Invention slots. Hey, that's like 1.5 times High Sec. 10400*N= 46944 Manufacturing slots. Highsec finally wins here. But it's still 80% of High Sec.
So, when you actually look at the maths properly rather than deliberately biasing the numbers, Null Sec's industrial power is actually fine. And if all of those 6022 systems got built in (Is there a game mechanic that limits this or simply funds? Information on outpost building is nigh on unavailable & out of date, I had to search patch notes for the Odyssey information, Wiki is out of date) Null Sec industrial power would be huge compared to High Sec.
The bolded part is wrong and highsec can have multiple stations per system so your points are moot. This isn't including the fact that the player made outposts do not come close to npc handed stations. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: I'm not sure how you ever expect to compete with a sytem like Sobaseki, regardless of buffs or nerfs. The sheer amount of people in empire will always dwarf null sec, and because of that the two will never be equal or balanced. Not to mention the fact that in your production systems you aren't competing with anyone else, whereas in high sec I have to actively look for slots that are not in production in a station and then I wouldn't get the benefit of the time savings of Null outposts...
Anoms were nerfed how exactly in the last 6 months?
I know that income was adjusted awhile back, but I dont recall any more Nerfs to null in recent history.
Powercreep aside, CCP seem to be willing to give you guys more buffs all things considered in the last 6 months. Maybe you should broker more of those buffs that are not directly related to income that would make sense and not fall in power creep?
Finding production slots in highsec is never an issue. I expect that something several thousand players strive to build can be better than anything NPCs hand to people for no investment. Anomalies were nerfed by replacing some of the crusiers/battlecrusiers with scramming frigates. It made it so you no longer have the choice of active ratting that gave you really good ticks or afk ratting that gave you minimal ticks. This is ignoring the fact that all but 3-4 types of anomalies are completely useless.
Its pretty hilarious to see everything suggested aside from some modest highsec nerfs.
E: It looks like the point is evading you too, that highsec is so good it makes a lot of sov space worthless. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: The point is not lost on me. Your sov space is worthless because its remained underpopulated and underutilized.
You are missing the point that no amount of buffing or nerfing is going to put that simple fact into balance. CCP can't colonize your space for you.
Now, I dont know if this is still the case or not, but back in the day you could only have one outpost per system.
If this is still true today, then I see no reason why a simple buff to make null be able to have an outpost on every planet in the system wouldn't be possible given all the other changes recently.
No vast swaths of it are literally worthless, I live there so yeah I know. It's still the case one outpost per system. We're not asking CCP to colonize space for us we're asking CCP make it worth colonizing. When highsec systems are better than sov space it makes that sov space worthless.
A simple change like shifting most of industry to POS would make a world of a difference. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:49:00 -
[49] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Wow... such an eloquent argument there. Yes, I know that not every null sec system has an outpost. That was an assumption for the sake of follow on maths to show Null Sec industrial potential. Also player made outposts since Odyssey can be superior to NPC stations in their chosen area. Now, if you would like to explain why outposts can't be built at the rate of one a system to generate a vastly superior industrial capability for Null compared to high? As the maths proves that if this was done Null would be vastly superior to high. As the ratio when taking developed systems into account (That aren't even all fully upgraded atm) shows that Null Industry is in a fine state already per developed system.
You are complaining about an area of Null that just had a massive buff six months ago. And using old figures to complain about.
Your assumptions were wrong and lead to the wrong conclusion, I let you know that. Yep it got a buff which was slightly tweaking outposts it wasn't enough and the lack of proliferation of nullsec industry proves that. Sure they can do well in one area where a highsec station will have 150 industry slots 100 ME/PE/Copy/invention slots a refinery and a repair station; basically doing well in all areas.
Again something thousands of players make and are required to defend/maintain is considerably worse than npc handed highsec stations. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 20:55:00 -
[50] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: I'm curious why you think that?
If you were to put an outpost in these systems and actually invested in that system to upgrade it for better rats, or belts etc, wouldn't be worthless....
Seems like you don't want to put the effort in and instead just want to make highsec less good.
If its sec was between -0.7 and -1.0 that is the minority, so yeah vast swaths are worthless. Sure we could plop outposts and other structures down that would require defending and maintenance just to get near the level of a single highsec system but, then you're wasting resources on something that still won't compare to a highsec system.
-Moving industry to POS makes wardecs/risk more significant as there is stuff to be threatened, so that puts null/low/wh producers on more of an even footing with highsec producers.
-Moving industry to POS adds logistical costs to industry for highsec, so that puts null/low/wh producers on more of an even footing with highsec producers.
-Moving industry to POS removes considerable NPC assistance, so that puts null/low/wh producers on more of an even footing with highsec producers.
Of course there are little details I am intentionally not bringing up because it'll bring out pedantic-highsec-npc-alt-n+1 so that's the general idea. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 21:01:00 -
[51] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: Well I'd just like to point out that
A. It doesn't take thousands of players to build and maintain outposts. B. Empire stations are more generalist, they have lots of slots but no bonuses Null Stations are more specialized, fewer slots, but with much greater bonuses
The imbalance is in your head.
And here's where you show you are a highsec pubbie pretending to know about nullsec.
Sure it literally only takes one person to put down the egg but it must be watched or someone will steal/kill it. It must be defended or else someone will take it. Both things highsec rightfully doesn't have to deal with but, wrongfully they get to excel in all areas whereas nullsec outposts get to be terrible in all but one area.
Once again something player made and maintained is considerably worse than something NPCs hand to the player.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 21:05:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:It would also provide a world of hurt for any players without any established POS structures. For those in larger groups with some level of industrial focus this wouldn't be an issue, but for those dabbling casually, part of groups with no real industry focus, or newer players just dabbling into industry, a reduction of facilities to the degree that would make the difference you intend would be prohibitive if not crippling for some effected.
I not sure the facility count is the core of the issue beyond being able to match facility counts across security bands, overly bountiful outliers aside, but rather the cost and efficiency of the facilities.
I've already covered that when I proposed the idea earlier in the thread it accounts for smaller groups. I agree that cost and efficiency is a problem as well as accessibility, we just haven't got past the point of accessibility yet because it has to be continually rehashed for highsec-npc-alt-n+1. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 21:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: Your kinda proving my point here. Not all null sec should be the land of easy milk and honey. CCP wants you to invest time and resources to make systems better, these are conflict drivers. You can't expect null to all be -1.0
But even so, your argument falls flat since I did pretty darn good for myself ratting in poop NPC controlled space and did much better than I could ever do in empire.
The only change that would make sense is to null and that would be to modify/tune the efficiency of the outpost you already have and let you build more outposts in a single system.
Nerfing hi sec is not going to fix the problems of null sec.
And you're missing the point that no matter how much we invest in those systems they won't be better than a highsec system. If there was an infinite amount of investment we could make to get better space this wouldn't be an issue.
If you want to use stupid anecdotes I have several industry/research alts in highsec that do way better than I could ever do in nullsec.
The only change that would make sense is to modify/tune highsec so that it is no longer better than nullsec.
Nerfing highsec is going to fix the problems of null sec. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 21:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Oh look.
It's this thread again.
Maybe it should be a sticky? That way it can stop coming up every 10 or so days. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 21:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: I'm not a highsec pubbie, I was heavily involved in t2 production in null before you guys were even a blink in the eye of BoB.
My point was merely that it doesn't take 5 thousand people to take and hold a constellation. Just because numbers is your game doesn't mean that's what you need to be successful. I also wasn't saying that a corp of 10 people could do it either 200-500? sure. This is especially true of the space you deem to be so darn worthless...
Once again something player made and maintained is more specialized and better at its role then any thing an NPC has.
Your experience is several years out of date as Jen pointed out already.
Sure it does with the advent of coalitions and the importance of TZ coverage sure it does.
That last sentence is untrue and only befitting of a highsec pubbie trying to pretend they know about nullsec.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 21:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: I am pedantic-highsec-alt-n+1
Your assumptions were wrong and as your argument was built from them your argument is also wrong. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1233
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 21:30:00 -
[57] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: Since you seem stuck on a single line and can't seem to get past it to the rest of the maths showing you are wrong. The assumption was what is known as a test assumption. 'If this is true, what will the results be'. And the results were that Null has a massive industrial & research potential.
I've never said Null has an outpost in every system currently. However. If you buff Nulls current outposts to the point that you currently have more research & manufacturing than high sec does overall, then when you build additional outposts, you get silly amounts. So to keep balance, you have to measure up the potential of null if every possible outpost was built, hence the 'assumption' you are stuck on.
Also look, I can fake quote you too and pretend you are irrelevant by calling you names, see how awesome it makes me!
I can ignore your entire argument because you built on false assumptions. Now that I did do that you are throwing a ~Highsec Tantrum~. Now if you want to make an argument that does not start of flawed and stop your ~Highsec Tantrum~ I'll be happy to discuss things with you. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1234
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Posted - 2013.12.03 21:53:00 -
[58] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: Yeah since I've left null has gotten massive buffs that didn't exist when I was player...
What took 10 alts and 3 NPC stations back then would take 5 alts and one fully upgraded outpost today...
The last sentence has been true for at least 6 months and is something you refuse to acknowledge.
The fact of the matter is that huge alliances have existed since before you, and before BoB.
If there's so much junk space out there, then no one should be willing to fight and hold it... thus leaving the door open for small groups like I'm suggesting.
If null is so garbage compared to empire then why is your alliance so big and holds so many regions eh? If things were as out of balance as you say they were, then you wouldn't exist in the form you do today.
Thank you for highlighting your lack of coherence and understanding. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1234
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Posted - 2013.12.03 21:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: I've only seen 2 claims from you regarding this: - NPC corp characters should be totally removed from all industrial aspects - Access to NPC asses should be mechanically prohibitive on top of availability being significantly reduced
That doesn't really address the concern I stated, but rather states that you think the consequences are beneficial. As this is first and foremost a game, while balance is needed, unnecessary complication and artificial barriers to the most basic levels of participation should probably be avoided. Your suggestion on the other hand just creates more of them.
While some of the issues you have are very relevant, with your positions coming across as they do I don't think you'll be too successful at convincing anyone not already on board with your ideas of their merit.
The other part of that is that people could get access to NPC assets by having an office in that station. You are correct in that I think NPC corp members should get the bad part of the changes. As far as convincing people goes highsec-alt-number-n+1 can't be convinced and are only here to This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1234
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Posted - 2013.12.03 23:24:00 -
[60] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:La Nariz wrote:Valterra Craven wrote: Yeah since I've left null has gotten massive buffs that didn't exist when I was player...
Thank you for highlighting your lack of coherence and understanding. Thank you for highlighting your lack of debate skills without backing up why this is the case.
Hint its the bolded text, I made it even easier for you. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
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La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1234
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Posted - 2013.12.03 23:37:00 -
[61] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Ah, it will it force your null sec industrialists to make stuff (which of course they already do), but imagine the other repercussions. As your null sec industry takes off, all those T2 mats you now jf back to high sec will instead be diverted to the null sec industrial hubs that will be forced to spring up. Those T2 mats won't make it to high sec, thereby strangling high sec industry, killing high sec, which is what you want all along.
See, I am helping you with your agenda to destroy high sec.
So you want to FORCE your play style on other people. Isn't that what you should be accusing us of doing to highsec? This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1236
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Posted - 2013.12.04 03:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
Keep digging that hole deeper. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
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